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Who should be paying for politics?Posts: Joined: 2006-03-28
This thread is for ideas on who should be allowed to pay for politics in the UK.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-15 14:59
state matched funding
There should be a measure of state funding for political parties who could match fund or co-finance from other sources.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 13:53
Citizen funded (via the state)
Funding should be provided solely by the state. There should be no corporate funding of political parties. Those who vote should receive a tax credit for doing so. Funding levels should reflect the number of members a party has got, the diversity of its membership (race, gender, etc) as well as the number of votes it attracts at the ballot box. The funding formula applied should be designed to promote diversity and voter choice by making it not too difficult for emerging parties to get onto the funding ladder.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 14:46
a democratic approach
I agree with Nico that funding for political parties should come from the state. However, instead of the amount of funding reflecting the number of votes a party receives or how many members it has, which might be too supportive of the status quo, I would suggest that each voter has a small amount (I imagine it would be 50p or less) which they can allocate to a party of their choice when they vote.
It's likely that they would choose to allocate it to the same party they vote for, but they might choose to allocate it to another in the interests of diversity.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 14:56
Commented in the wrong place...
...but was unable to remove comment
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 16:13
...yes but
[This comment is a response to Guy Aitchinson post above (a democratic approach). It is posted here because the system for some reason does not allow me to post it where it should go!] Is it not equally as important that we create powerful incentives for our leaders to re/build their political parties? If party funding does not reflect the size and diversity of a party's membership base, the party's leadership has far less of an incentive to listen to its members.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 16:14
Funding politics
Maybe in future 'political parties' may be radically changed or replaced (must say I am frustrated with how they are developing). For now parties will remain as the bedrock of democracy. Need to i. reduce spending limits on campaigning; ii.cap donations; iii allow tax relief on donations; iv. matched funding from a national source to a relative limit (Power Commission); v.ban funding from unions.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 15:04
Whay ban union funding in particular?
[quote=David William Hendra] v.ban funding from unions. <[/quote]> Why single out this particular source of funding?
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 15:29
who pays?
Matched funding from a national source but individual entrepenurial spirit must continue to inspire public to contribute to local parties / candidates in first place within the clearly defined limits
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 15:15
state funding
I just think it's essential to avoid the american experience of candidates dropping out of races due to lack of funding, that's just intolerable. As to how much, equality would be great to avoid the status quo, but then there'd possibly be a proliferation of parties who'll never get any support and general abuse of the system. Perhaps a minimum quota of public support to ensure an equal share in a pre-designated state-provided fund.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 16:43
Different sources at different levels
I think the first point is that there are different levels of politics - although one is elected an MP as a candidate for a particular party, the office you hold is "The Member for <Insert Constituency Name Here>" - your job is primarily that of representing your constituents. Logically therefore, because you are working for the state, the state should pay your wages - the proviso of course being that there are proper measures in place to look at expenses - no-one for example, would deny that an MP would need a constituency staff to help with their work, so long as the MP is not taking liberties to rip off the taxpayer. The second level therefore is party politics. It's quite straightforward here - you are not working for the state, but instead to put forward a private citizens' agenda. Therefore it should be funded by private citizens. If we use the "market" analogy again, I think there is a strong case for arguing that the taxpayer should not be obliged to subsidise views that do not enjoy mass popularity - or indeed views that enjoy great popularity! Parties and elections should be free from state intervention, and therefore funding is one area that should be left untouched.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 16:43
Tangentally
There is an issue about how fair it is to those challenging incumbumbents that the incumbants have allowances to e.g. communicate with thier consituants. I get the impresion that the "incumbancy" is less of an advantage in elections in the UK than it is elsewhere, but I think it can still be an issue if the only name you recognise on your ballot paper is the one from all those consituancy newsletters posted through your letterbox every month.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 17:11
Who pays?
Does it have to be a single source? Maybe there could be a state allowance to parties topped up by private donations with a limit on the individual amount (which should be modest), these donations being scrutinised by an independent body. A fee payable individually either through tax or at time of voting would deter many from voting at all. A tax credit is fine if you pay tax. the poor and many pensioners would not benefit or be encouraged to participate. The rich would neither notice nor care. There should also be a means of contributing at both local and national levels or at one of these two only.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 17:40
I think that the politicians
I think that the politicians mentioned in the question should be funded by the taxpayer. I think that, although initially there would be public resistance to this, people would come to support it as the least worst option.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 19:54
Who pays?
A combination of the person promoting themselves (individually or as part of a group) and taxpayers contribution. It should not be open to sponsors with a vested interest, to give even one thousand pounds to achieve advantage for their particular interest. In the first instance the person promoting themselves needs some credibilty, the support at that stage could be given in the form of publicity (eg candidates contribute a page in a booklet) which is open to all bone fide candidates equally. Once the election has happened there could be a retrospective payment towards proven relevant costs to a certain level to all candidates who achieved an agreed portion of the votes with those getting markedly more votes having a higher proportional payment. The level of payment would also be related to the significance of what level the election is for and the size of the relevant constituencies. Between elections there could be a payment towards proven relevant costs for those who were elected and (somewhat less) for those who achieved an agreed portion of the votes at the previous election for relevant publicity. I have just read the contributions above, but left it until I had formed my own response. My perspective is that of an electorally successful independant community group with a minuscule budget..
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 20:15
I am totally against state
I am totally against state funding. I don't see why my taxes should be used to fund parties that I disagree with, such as Labour or parties which I abhor such as the BNP. State funding would be unfair to smaller parties, for example MK and would make it almost impossible for new parties to be formed. Party funding should come from members and supporters, but with a cap on the maximum that any supporter is allowed to donate. The cap should be a moderate amount.
Submitted on Tue, 2008-02-19 20:46
publicly and individually
Public funding - linked to votes cast for registered political parties in elections Individual funding - through membership fees and fees paid by members of affiliates (the tory clubs, trade unions, etc.)
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 01:50
Taking a tip from lessig...
Campaigns should be publicly funded. The amount given per candidate would be a fixed amount based on the number of citizens in a given constituency. All corporate, political action committee (or the UK equivalent), and wealthy donor funds directly to campaigns would be disallowed. Some might argue that this is an effective strike against some kind of "freedom of expression", but my counterargument would be that suffrage is the ultimate guaranteed freedom of expression, and individuals could still contribute via membership dues and fundraisers of their respective political parties. Additional funds could be requested based on specific criteria. To ensure that additional requests for public funding would not drain government coffers, perhaps there could be the institution of a pooled funds system similar to the colleges at Cambridge, whereby each college contributes a certain amount to the common pool for general use. Parties would stand in for colleges in the system, and just like Trinity College or St. John's College, Labour and Tory parties would contribute the largest percentage based on their size. Because the government regulated system of additional funds would be the only way to enhance campaigns, there would be a natural incentive for parties to contribute to benefit their own petitioning candidates. But candidates from other parties could petition for the same funds--hopefully equalizing the playing field.
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 10:24
Accountability is the most important issue
A politician's salary or allowance should be paid by the state and they should claim expenses on the same basis as civil servants. Their administrative staff should be recruited by the state under the usual equal opportunities policies. Their political staff e.g. constituency workers should be recruited by their political party (or another transparent system to be devised for independents), again following all aspects of employment law. The practice of giving politicians an allowance to recruit their own staff shoudl end. We've seen recently where that money goes - to their families. The state should fund the election campaigns of political parties up to an agreed level, perhaps recommended to Parliament by the Electoral Commission. Parties should be allowed to raise money to an agreed level on top of that, with monitoring and audited returns carried out at constituency level and co-ordinated by the central party. All donations over a very nominal amount, say £100, should be in the public domain, both individuals and organisations. (Including in Northern Ireland, where at the moment they are still confidential) There should continue to be a limit on the amount that can be spent on elections. Yes it's bureaucratic but it's essential to restore public confidence in the way political parties operate.
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 10:52
Funding should be local
Individual political representatives should be paid out of funds that are raised locally - whether that involves donations from private individuals or taxpayers. I see no reason why somebody in Northumberland should necessarily be paid as much as somebody in London, or vice versa. This would introduce real accountability to local voters, which is currently overlooked.
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 14:16
funding candidates
I favour the system where the state allocates each voter a small sum and allows them to allot it to a party or candidate separately from their vote (may or may not be the candidate they also vote for). They have to do it when they vote. It would apply to independent candidates too. It would be necessary for them to show they had spent the money on political activity, much as with declaring election expenses now. Most other state funding systems, if not all, would result in existing major two parties becoming effectively fossilised as official state parties. They would get state funding purely because they were already in power, and all new entrants would be starved out.
Chris Padley
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 16:00
Community Service
I liked the suggestion that each voter would be able to allocate a certain small amonut of State money to a particular party, thereby having a say about the options they will have when they come to cast their vote. I also think parties should be required to do forms of community service (not like criminals, maybe spend one day a month collecting money for certain charities or helping out in a soup kitchen etc.) in order to earn 'brownie points' which result in them receiving a proportion of the State budget for Party funding. I also think that contributors should be required to give the same amount which they contribute to a party to a charity, which should reduce the size of private contributions.
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 18:16
Parties should be funded
Parties should be funded solely through their membership fee with state
Reducing the amount of finds available forces parties to spend money on methods
It would also encourage parties to seek out and reinvigorate their grassroots
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 18:52
neither state nor donors should fund parties
parties should be funded purely by ther membership/subscription fees. donors should not be allowed to influence our politicans just because they have money but neither is there a need for state funding; over the course of a parliament both the labour party and the tories will receive well over £15million pounds in membership fees. how much do they need to set up a website with their manifesto on it? what is it that they spend all this money on? is it on informing us of their policies or is it on manipulating us (supermarket style) into voting for them or, more likely, against the opposition. parties relying on only their membership fees would have the added benefit of allowing a level playing field with party funding commensurate with their public support. this is why i created the following petition: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/partyfunding2/
Submitted on Wed, 2008-02-20 23:29
I think that parties should
I think that parties should be funded by the state and subsidies should reflect the number of votes it receives in elections. However, these subsidies should be limited to the very extend so that parties could not spend large amounts of money for political campaigns. Subsidies should allow parties to promote themselves but only in the ‘moderate way’. Generally it should not be like that, that the party invests great amounts of money in its campaign and then waits for the state to refund all (or almost all) of it. Also the idea that has appeared earlier about giving voters possibility to allocate small amount of money to one of the parties sounds very interesting. I am also not sure whether parties should rely mostly on membership fees cause if they are too high they can discourage the poor from participating in politics
Submitted on Thu, 2008-02-21 14:30
Power had a good idea
I too support the Power Inquiry solution. When they go to vote individuals should be allowed to select a party to whom a small amount, say £10, will be given by the state. So it is public funding but citizen shaped.
Submitted on Thu, 2008-02-21 18:48
Parties should certainly be
Parties should certainly be funded by the state, and not via private donations. Their books should be 100% transparent, with every penny accounted for. Whatever system is arrived at to determine party funding, it must excise the role played by corporate lobbies.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 12:55
State plus membership
Parties who have attained a minimum level of support (in terms of membership) should be state funded at a fixed level. This can be supplemented by membership fees and fundraising but no donations above £1000. It is then up to the party to decide how do divi this up between candidates (as someone pointed out a London candidate may need more than a Sheffield candidate). Elected MPs should not be able to recruit workers on an expense account system.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 15:01
Bit of definition please
"Who should be paying for politics?" is a very broad and wooly question. Some people have assumed you mean election expenses, others have referred to MPs expenses, other's the more general party funding for staff and research. No mention of course about politics outside the party system. So first request is for some definition of what we are discussing. Secondly some common information would be of assistance to many. Perhaps a breakdown of the current funding of political parties. Some background here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6065322.stm Personally I believe the parties should receive some basic state funding for research and policy formation. As they currently do. For addtional funds, such as for elections and other communication expenses they should have to raise those funds themselves thorugh donations and subscriptions. (useful US background here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_finance_in_the_United_States) There should be a cap on election expenditure and on individual donations. A ban on political TV advertising should remain as should the wonderful party political broadcasts which help to level the playing field. If we are to increase levels of political engagement in this country (and I believe it is important to do so) then politicians need to be forced to go and listen to people and respond to them. Having to ask them for £100 is going to sharpen their minds. At the moment the only voters who get listened to are those in marginal seats or with multi-thousand pounds donations to make. {Ed. We did try to give some background information via a background article - it's in our Guidelines and Schedule http://www.partyfundingreview.gov.uk/htms/download.htm We also feel that, though the subject does indeed infringe upon many aspects of our politics, it should still be possible to discuss any one particular aspect. Peter Emerson.}
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 15:18
State funding
David Alwyn complains that he would not want to fund a political party whose views he did not share. Yet the very essence of democracy is that you accept that others may overrule you if there are more of them. You therefore agree, by participating in a democratic system, to be bound by the decisions of the majority, not your own views. In other words by voting you are legitimating the system, even if the system cedes power to an individual or party you detest. The same principle should apply for funding - your funding should support the system of party politics, even if by doing so an individual or party you detest gains from that.
It's crucial to see state funding as funding a transparent, accountable system of politics, not funding a particular party. And such an approach gets my full support.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 16:32
State should refund
State should refund polical parties when taking part to election. However, I don't see why taxpayers should pay political parties that get less that 5% of the voters. State funding should be dependent on the result to elections.. Political parties should have the right to receive individual donations, up to, let's say £20'000/year. Companies should not be able to donate money. Political parties should be allowed to raise money by organising events or selling some litterature, etc... http://lecrochepied.blog.lemonde.fr
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 18:24
I agree with capping
I agree with capping individual donations.. If parties wereallowed to raise money in any way they want, however, wouldn't that leave the system open to abuse?
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 18:42
A better system will be more complex
Just as the most important feature of democracy is a negative, the ability to vote our rulers out, so the funding issue revolves round a negative, banning the purchase of influence or power through large donations or contributions. This leaves a limited number of alternatives, state determined funding, voted-for contributions from the state, membership fees and material help, and (not of importance at present or perhaps forseeably) business activities such as the sale of publications. Each of these modes of funding is problematic. Membership fees are unproblematic from the point of view of distorting effect, except insofar as Trade Unions distort them in Labour's favour. The problem with them is the declining number of people prepared to take the trouble to join a party. State funding, whether determined by rules or by taxpayer or voter choice, is liable to distort democracy by introducing inertia and by the effect of the rules (e.g. a system which puts extra money towards minor groups tending towards the problems associated with proportional representation, i.e. putting unwarranted power into the hands of minor groups). I do not believe these drawbacks can be eliminated. The best we can do is to mitigate them by a system which combines an element of state funding with membership fees and with donations capped at such a low level that serious undue influence is avoided. Because of all the problems, limiting expenditure aimed at boosting votes will be a vital part of any acceptable system. Finally, the effects of any new system will not be entirely predictable. There should therefore be a planned way of reviewing the system and tweaking it over time to produce results acceptable to the majority.
{Ed. ...or even, via a consensus vote, acceptable to (almost) everyone: i.e., the most widely acceptable compromise, the option with the most points. Peter Emerson}
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 20:47
They Reap What They Sow - Politicians Should Pay Like Students
Democracy should require equal access, therefore I would severely cap spending, but I would also not want to see a mjor burden on the state. So, let: (a) Aspirant politicians pay themselves to an agreed cap on all spending, or (b) Use the equivalent amount loaned to them by the state. However, where they are loaned the money, they will have to repay it, if elected, just as students have to repay their loans. If they are unsuccessful in their bid, then they should only have to repay a small proportion (maybe 25%), and only if their income level can reasonably sustain it.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 22:40
Revitalising the democratic process
Who should fund those who aspire to serve? (Those who serve will I imagine be funded by the state or councils). But what is the purpose of the question? It isn't about book-keeping; it assumes that having conditions on the funding of candidates informs the entire public process. And this seems like a reasonable assumption. In his essay in New Left Review (No. 42, 2006) on this, Peter Mair describes the process of "hollowing out" which has afflicted all western European states; turnout has fallen, and party membership has fallen. So: funding needs to incentivise parties to improve both of these numbers; more people voting, more people joining. The first - on votes won, not seats won - should come from the state. The second should be a membership fee, within a capped annual limit, which is between the party and the individual. But it should also permit people who (personally) want to contribute to a particular party, at a particular time, to do so, within modest annual limits, from their own resources, to encourage parties to speak to people who identify with some policies or values, but may not be joiners. Who shouldn't be able to fund political parties? I think this is easier. Organisations of any structure, whether corporations, trade ujnions, or NGOs. If they have something to say about the political process, they should fund a campaign. (In case I am misunderstood here: I know well the arguments about union funding of the labour party, but they were the outcome of a contingent response to the large scale funding of the Conservative Party by business. These days I imagine most trades unions would be relieved not to have to decide whether they were going to fund Labour or not. I'm sure many trades unionists would still choose to join as members). Which leaves one question: this model effectively creates a 'returns to the richest' model, in which parties which can afford to field candidates even in relatively hopeless seats get funding on the votes they win there, whereas smaller parties have to be more tactical about where they stand. There should be a flat floor payment - a fixed sum - to any party which can demonstrate (visibly, transparently, etc) a minimum number of paid up members in a given year.
Submitted on Fri, 2008-02-22 23:31
Different level of capping for the trade unions
If contributions to parties are capped, then there should be a higher level for trade union contributions as they represent hundreds of thousands of members who pay the political levy, rather than just one rich individual. And hopefully some democratic control exists on how that money is spent.
Submitted on Sat, 2008-02-23 17:37
Who should be payiing
Every enfranchised person in the UK by compulsory levy paid at time of return submission. No exemptions from payment and no other permitted payments.
Submitted on Sat, 2008-02-23 23:09
Who should pay?
Funding should be provided partly by the state, and partly from private sources/contributions with clearly defined and enforced spending limits, and with full transparency of contributing sources
Submitted on Sun, 2008-02-24 09:52
political party funding
I am a card-carrying member of a political party and would object very strongly to my taxes being used to pay for the the campaigns of other parties, which is what state funding means. (I am no longer a member of a trade union, but when I was I opted out of the Labour Party levy - a lot harder to do than it ought to have been!) Parties' election campaigns should be financed by their members. If some of those members are millionaires and give their party millions, then that is their business. Surely the reason you join a political party is to influence its policies? People have always tried to buy influence over political decisions, everywhere, and if they are banned from doing it with cash they will find another way. It seems to me that the issue is not where the money comes from but how it is spent and how transparently it is accounted for - but I guess that is for posting on another page.
Submitted on Sun, 2008-02-24 11:07
Political party funding
I am in favour of an element of state funding for political parties, if only to introduce stricter rules of transparency and also to even up the odds for smaller parties trying to gain a foothold on the political landscape. The amount of funding shold be based on levels of support at the ballot box
Submitted on Sun, 2008-02-24 22:18
funding
i agree that parties should be state funded, but i dont think this can be allocated on the basis of votes received. it means the popular parties have a monopoly. but living in a pluralist society, all groups should in theory be given equla opportunity to campaign and be heard.
Submitted on Sun, 2008-02-24 23:21
Who should pay?
I would consider two forms of funding, and modest contributions through membership fees. One would be from the electorate, that is state funding, but levying a fixed fee, rather like the payment of the TV license, which immediately will provoke hostility, if not outrage, but has the virtue of being transparent and that the money provided will be directly related, even in the minds of those who have no active involvement in politics, to the democratic process. It will also be clear that this sum is used solely for the democratic purpose of elections and paty formation. Secondly, I would also levy a specific tax on businesses, which again will provoke fury, justifying this on the basis that the regulation and, indeed, climate of entrepreneurial freedom in the UK depends on government. This could be in the form of some kind of banding according to profitability. Thirdly, modest membership fees would be allowed, but capped say at £50 or £75, so that the influence of wealthy members and interest groups is effectively neutralised.
Submitted on Sun, 2008-02-24 23:31
Who should pay
Let us separate specific funding for election campaigns (there are already tight maximum spending limits for candidates, though not parties) from general spending between elections. Donations to political parties have been tightened up to prevent abuses of patronage and vested interests. These should be maintained between elections but what about the Unions/Labour and Ashcroft/Tories? I believe a form of state funding for parties during election periods allowing for MATCHING funding from individual donations should be permitted. This should be based on a formula of party membership and previous electoral support. This would not rule out the bias in favour of incumbents but the alternative - to give equal funding to all registered parties - would simply introduce new imbalances: there are hundreds of registered parties in the UK. One way of levelling the playing field further would be to reduce the financial waste of money that is encouraged: broadcasters, or at least the BBC, could be compelled to carry a minimum amount of political advertising, as now (the PEB). The same requirement on commercial radio, newspring and billboards could be offered through VAT refunds to cover the equivalent cost of advertising spots. This question also needs to address on-going spending after election. MPs arguably need more public funds for running their office/research etc. but should pass management of this to Parliament (to stop abuse) i.e. staff become employees of Parliament and not the MP. Yet we should also recognise that MPs can spend public money on communication resources to their constituents which makes it harder to challenge an incumbent. Consideration should also be given to how selected candidates could qualify for limited state funding for campaigning/research work prior to the official election campaign.
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 00:23
Donations by individuals
Donations by individuals should be capped. It is currently too easy for wealthy individuals to 'buy' political favours. I dont think it is at all valid to talk about the free market here. Rich and poor should have equal influence on the democratic process through the ballot box, if the rich can make it more likely their candidate wins then that makes a mockery of the democratic process. In addition there is also the fact that the politician will 'owe' them something back. Individual donations should therefore be capped at a level where one individual can not have a disportionate influence eg £1000. Business and the Trade Unions equally should not be allowed to contribute or else they are 'owed' something which may not be the best thing for the country as a whole. Perhaps a proportion of donations should be used in the locality that the individual comes from and a proportion put in a central pot to try and avoid the situation where marginal seats are disportionately targetted, everyone should have the same access to information about political parties. I am undecided as to the idea of state funding, if it is based on previous election results it will make it difficult for smaller parties to grow and reinforce the status quo, perhaps there should be a set amount for each candidate put forward instead. In all liklihood this would significantly reduce the amount of funding available, this would force the parties to improve the effiency of the spending.
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 00:36
Spending and the 'politics' of politics
Interestingly, the issues of public trust, private contributions, public
Elections: as private contributions are essential incentives for both the
The ability to express interests politically is factored by ones support
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 02:10
State-funded?
If we are heading towards a state funded model as a way of reducing corruption, how about the following twist: Parties funded according to what percentage of the vote they polled at the last election, except that the party that gained the largest percentage of the vote (usually though not necessarily the party of government) has their effective percentage capped back to the level of the second largest party. This could encourage well thought through party spending as the two main parties would start at exactly the same point.
Submitted on Mon, 2008-02-25 10:39
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