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Did the 1968 revolution leave a legacy?
 What 1968 revolution?
[quote] But while many of those young radicals are now establishment figures in politics, media and business, the world they sought has not come about. [/quote] Seems like you answered your own question. It was revolution that never was and clearly never will be. That is not pessimism. That is the reality of the human condition. Sounds like an interesting event, but with a weak dollar, I'm not planning any frivolous trips to London. Did the 1968 revolution
tell you what though, those movements did make a great difference. Consider the current movements and trends in social change driven by the net. The very idea of a 'personal' computer came from an unbrindled optimism of freedom. Perhaps the world sought didn't come to fruition, but a platform I would argue has been made for that world to take shape. Did the 1968 revolution
IM, Sounds like an interesting event, but with a weak dollar, I'm not planning any frivolous trips to London. I bet you'd go if it was to see a reuninon of The Monkeys. The very idea of a
Did the 1968 revolution
[quote]I bet you'd go if it was to see a reuninon of The Monkeys[/quote] You obviously weren't around in '68. I take it you mean a reunion of the Monkees. Did the 1968 revolution
Willow, A combination of speed typing and fat fingers. Sorry. And, yes, I was around in 68. 'Twas meant entirely as a joke. Had I been serious, I might have said a reunion of Cream, Jefferson Airplane, or The Grateful Dead.
"Had I been serious, I might
"Had I been serious, I might have said a reunion of Cream, Jefferson Airplane, or The Grateful Dead." Okay...I confess that I would absolutely support THOSE reunions. Although last year I saw my first concert in years...Moody Blues. What a disappointment! Unlike me, some things do not get better with age. At least I still have my 8-tracks. :-) Did the 1968 revolution
"The very idea of a 'personal' computer came from an unbrindled optimism of freedom." Actually the personal computer and the software that makes it functional were products of a competitive corporate economy. IBM, Apple, Microsoft et al, all looking looking to make a lot of money by building a better product than the others. Gotta love it... You're confusing the idea with the economic dynamic which popularised it. MD is at least partly right. the clever people who brought it all together were motivated by money certainly but also by the insatiable human desire to do something special, to push forward the boundaries. That happened before capitalism and it will keep happening after it's gone the same way as it's predecessors. Did the 1968 revolution
It does rather help that there are people out there willing to invest large sums of money to support those who wish to do something special, in return for a share of the proceeds. There is a very close relationship between the pace of technological progress and the availability of venture capital funding. It's also worth considering that the personal computer and the software that makes the computer usable by anyone do not represent huge technological leaps, but rather efforts to apply technology to the development of products that large number of people will use, and thus will pay for. Visionaries push the cutting edge, capitalists turn that cutting edge into a product that makes it possible to do what we do here, among other things. Did the 1968 revolution
Visionaries push the cutting edge, capitalists turn that cutting edge into a product that makes it possible to do what we do here, among other things. Indeed. And some of those capitalists deserve a bit of credit for their own vision. It does not mean that human progress is impossible without them. Nor does it negate the argument that the price they exact for their contribution (especially the insistence that the direction of future progress is up to the market - ie them) is too high. The market is not "them".
The market is not "them". The market is us. People and companies produce goods and services and offer them for sale, but we - the market - determine what will be bought, and what will succeed, and therefore it is we the market who determine what the direction of future progress will be. There are few more reliable indicators of popular preference than the sum total of individual purchasing decisions: most people put a lot more research and thought into purchasing than they do into voting. Material progress requires investment, which must be private or public. Experiments with state ownership of the means of production have not, thus far, worked out terribly well. Many of us would love to be able to tell people what they ought to want... but would you really want some bureaucrat telling you what you're allowed to want? Did the 1968 revolution
It was revolution that never was and clearly never will be. That is not pessimism. That is the reality of the human condition IRON MIKE you utterly disregard social constructs, and don't understand the concept of a man 'chasing his own tail' the very illogic behind pre-emtion is that one is punching in the dark, and therefore eventually will find what they are looking for - you are philosophically malnourished. Actually the personal computer and the software that makes it functional were products of a competitive corporate economy. IBM, Apple, Microsoft et al, all looking looking to make a lot of money by building a better product than the others. Gotta love it... STEVE ROGERS. sure, but you have taken what I have said and taken it out of context. There is a degree of reasoning and reaction ergo 1968 and other moements did have an effect on social change. I'm not an absolutist mate, but think laterally when you read a reply please.
"...you utterly disregard
"...you utterly disregard social constructs, and don't understand the concept of a man 'chasing his own tail' the very illogic behind pre-emtion is that one is punching in the dark, and therefore eventually will find what they are looking for - you are philosophically malnourished." Because I don't agree with you I am philosophically malnourished? Perhaps it is you who needs something more filling than the pop philosophy you seem to relish. I suggest you start with Hegel. I'm not an absolutist mate, but think laterally when you read a reply please. As a pragmatist, I prefer to read literally, not laterally. Perhaps that's why your arguments lack reason. Did the 1968 revolution
I'm not an absolutist Possibly, but neither are you making any sense. What are you trying to say here? What does "a degree of reasoning and reaction ergo 1968" have to do with the evolution of the personal computer? For that matter, what do social constructs and "pre-emtion" (sic) have to do with the question of whether or not there was a revolution in 1968? Mike may or not be "philosophically malnourished": I am not a philosophical nutritionist and I am not qualified to evaluate that condition. You, on the other hand, are simply incoherent, a condition I am able to recognize. Did the 1968 revolution
sure, but you have taken what I have said and taken it out of context. There is a degree of reasoning and reaction ergo 1968 and other moements did have an effect on social change this is the phrase you are referring to, not the 6 words you chose. Because of the context (trickled down social change, think of Russia aswell and computers, need I explain?) there was a reaction to the 1968 movements. don't try to undermine something out of context. The question was, did the 1968 revolution leave a legacy, did you forget that? I am referring to the legacy, ergo what happened AFTERWARDS, not BEFORE.. Did the 1968 revolution
One can question whether the events of 1968 can reasonably be described as a revolution. Of course those events left something that might be described as a "legacy" - all events do - but you have not drawn any reasonable connection between those events and personal computers, or Russia, or anything else. I think you do need to explain, I can't figure out what it is you're trying to say. Did the 1968 revolution
I suggest you read something on cyberwars, or the information age, from Castells or something. It chronicles from the base, how social change bloomed in regards to freedom's and technologies due to the movements of the 60s. of course there is a counter argument to this, but it is a thesis, within a framework which is of some relevance to the article in question here. Did the 1968 revolution
Sounds a pretty tenuous thesis to me. Would you care to summarize it, and to defend it? |
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Compared to the politics of today, the spring of 1968 seems like a period of unbridled optimism: young people took to the streets for a better world and 'utopian' and 'radical' were not yet dirty words. But while many of those young radicals are now establishment figures in politics, media and business, the world they sought has not come about.
So was it all just hopeless naiveté and youthful extravagance? Or is the world we live in a better place for the dreamers of 1968? Could we learn from the sixties spirit of humanist optimism? Or should we just get real and explore the possibilities of our own time?
Speakers (from the '68 generation and the up-and-coming generations) include:
Frank Furedi, Manifesto Club member, former student radical and agitator in 1968, now agitated radical humanist and professor of sociology at the University of Kent.
Maria Grasso, Manifesto Club member, chair of the Institute of Ideas Post-Grad Forum and doctoral student investigating the decline of political engagement in Italy and the UK.
Lee Jones, doctoral student in International Relations at Nuffield College, Oxford, who has argued that the '68ers were possibly the most disappointing generation ever produced by Western Society.
If you're interested in debating these issues please come along :
Date: Tuesday 22 April
Venue: The Evangelist (Downstairs), 33 Blackfriars Lane, London EC4V 6EP (Map)
Time: Doors open 7pm; discussion begins 8pm.
Cost: Free to Manifesto Club Members; £5 non-members.