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Presenting project Forum.hrPosts: Joined: 2003-08-31
This is the project that tends to become the legitimate place of political actions. The central interactive virtual place of Croatia. The forum software is based on independence, where every particle of the site (individual) has the same possibilities in using this site. That is important for gaining legitimacy from all participants.
The site is based on three parts. Forum, News and archive.
Forum is based on the only one category of users (no moderators), though we keep the transparence by hide/unhide options that can be useful on leading discussion. We categorize spam as any data that contains no information for the user. Cause spam is obviously based on subjective perception, we did not use rating or other similar systems. The reason is that calculating some sort of mainstream opinion has nothing to the idea of spam of the individual.
News is the place where all NGO-s and public institutions can introduce their work to the wide population. Also, this part tends to promote all sorts of journalism that will be able to gain political importance by the nature of the site. This is the place, where we are going to introduce public editors, who will choose news on their own interest. The purpose of news is to create alternative independent media on political level.
Archive is the place where people are going to obtain all public documents and other material of the public interest.
Now, there is the problem of making this site legitimate central place. This is the part we decided to solve on this way. Every NGO or Public institution who supports this project, will have to share the user base of Forum with this site. This will obtain several benefits to the institutions and to this site.
In this way, we can use the internet to create this central independent place that will pretty soon become the most important creator of the public opinion.
We believe that creating the place that will be adequate to gang legitimacy of the central place on the political level of the state, is the first exact step towards e-democracy.
Also, the idea of transparent communication on the political level, opinion making, open source sharing and its effect on the political elite is much more important part of the e-democracy concept, than direct voting itself.
Second thought, I share the opinion that the old paradigm of politics is going to gain its true power, cause the e-democracy - better to say open source politics has the power to not just to get back the old paradigm, but also to improve it to its perfect.
BTW, now we are in the stage of connecting NGOs on this infrastructure. The best thing of this idea is that it can not be stopped. Cause the open source is in its core.
In the next document I will post the part of the project documentation that explains the idea of the forum itself. It is a little bit old and not completely correct, but for the start it can use its purpose.
Submitted on Mon, 2003-09-01 12:08
Re: Presenting project Forum.hr
Hi,
Check out my recently launched site http://www.lazygov.org/
It is based on the lazyweb, but obviously aimed at government and politics. It is very basic at the moment, i aim to add country distictions to it (ie uk.lazygov.org etc) as well as being able to view it generally.
If you have any comments then do let me know, it is a simple idea that I just quickly put together and of course is not the site you are discussing but I feel it is a start and by building small quick and easy sites we can probably achieve more than huge projects.
thanks
mark.
mark simpkins
mark@lazygov.org
http://www.lazygov.org/
a NodalReseach project
Re: Presenting project Forum.hr
Looks interesting - the Lazyweb structure is neat - it makes sense to use it to bring people together on matters of politics. It still seems slightly unclear to me what the exact topic is - I guess you've left it broad on purpose (we have a tendency to do that on openDemocracy too) ... A little direction might help... Way to go on quick and easy - it's good to have a base before building something larger on it.
Solana
Forum - a pathway to common good
During the antic times, a forum was a place where all free citizens decided about the life of the state. A polis of thousands of free citizens formed its political activity publicly, with direct participation of all those who had a right and obligation to do so.
In this way the idea of direct democracy was accomplished in antic times - everybody participated in the governing, of course, with specific exceptions. Women, children and barbars, or slaves did not belong to the category of free citizens and therefore had no right to vote.
Today, the Internet inspires new ideas which leads to direct democracy where all citizens are able to participate, a form of democracy that has been dead for a long time. Creating an interactive site would give an opportunity to each citizen to participate in various problems the goverment faces. The site would be transparent and would enable each participant to express their own opinion and their standing without being influenced by the media, propaganda or political ideas.
Bringing closer as many participants as possible on the site would provide fast and quality exchange of ideas and opinions, and the number of participants on the forum would create significant political influence. This would give substance to abstract political issues, since every person or local group would be able to express their problems publicly, without being affected by the media, various lobbies and interests groups or influential individuals.
Finally, it is an opportunity for all citizens to understand and accept the state, together with its offices, as something positive and useful, without any preconceived ideas.
The feeling of being able to infulence some decisions restores the lost faith of democracy of every individual. Voting every four years or protesting from cause to cause does not bring strong feeling of paticipation in deciding about our everyday life and our future.
Our voices would not disappear in everyday private discussions, but rather they would blend together with others to form a significant social power that would influence decision-making. In this way the Forum opens a pathway to common good or pragmatic wellbeing of the majority. All visionary ideas that get support on the forum will have political credibility and a chance to be accepted by the goverment.
With partial interests cancelling each other, ideas that promote general well-being will remain high ranked. It is important to understand that the principal area of Forum's activity is advisory in nature. Some governing structures earn trust by their transparent activities. If an idea is formed clearly with high percentage support from most participants, it can be a sign that tells the goverment what people wish for and think, although the goverment makes the decision on its own.
Today's technology, with electronic communication, gives us an incredible opportunity to interact fast and cheap in political life and to vote for important decisions. Active involvment of many participants would give an opportunity to the citizens to control decision-making as well as realization of certain ideas. It would also expand the spectrum of ideas and horizons, bring new ideas an comments, that would eventually help the political elite and improve the quality of their work.
Please, comment this project.
What do you think about it? Is there any important part we did not evaluate?
For the end of todays posting session. By connecting all political activists on the one place, this site is going to make the political acts much more easily than ever before. Also, using full transparence as an imperative of political participation, this project is going to rapidly shrink the difference between visible and nonvisible politics.
Making the political activism much more citizen friendly, by avoiding all psychological traps of nowdays system, we believe that this is the true way for getting the politics in the natural sphere it deserves to be.
Ps. Sorry for bad english
Message was edited by: gale1
Re: Please, comment this project.
Sounds like an enormous (and expensive) project. Tremendous if it works. Do you have a web address or name for it yet?
Solana
Re: Please, comment this project.
> Sounds like an enormous (and expensive) project.
> Tremendous if it works. Do you have a web address or
> name for it yet?
> Solana
Well, though we had great promises from the Carnet(Croatian academic research network) on the beginning of this project, after all they cancelled all of their support with no known reason.
The most important thing of their involvement in this project was the legitimacy they could provide on its very start.
The expenses of this project in its starting position are not big at all. About 50 000$. Though, the future development of this software and promotion part go way higher, but these costs of software development are not too important for the implementation of the idea, and its practical benefits.
At this moment we are working on this project with no financial support. We use open source principles that do not need actual money at all. Though, the project would run much faster than it runs in this way.
Another important part of this project is the brand we promote, Tiaktiv (transparent interactive), that is based on the idea that open and independent place that is used for linking public and organizations produces great benefit for the organizations that REALLY support development of the civic society. Of course, most of nowadays organizations are not in the position to use this brand, which gives the brand its true meaning.
Due to the fact that only minor number of organization can support this brand, we give the opportunity to the public to evaluate their work and to distinct it form others.
Next. In Croatia, there is about 20 000 NGOs. There are about 400 active ones. Using the principle of the great numbers, we are going to connect new organizations to this place, one by one.
For all of this work, we need no money, as you can notice.
But, now we are in the moment, the money could help us a lot to spread this idea and place itself to the wider public. I hope we will find the donators for this project soon. BTW, we did not contact any foreign founders, so if you have any suggestion, it could help us a lot.
About the address. We will place this site (actually, only the forum that is completely finished) in a couple of weeks. At the beggining, the name of the project was Forum.hr, but they took this adress a few days before us. So, we made a new name, the name that is easy to remember. It is Glas.hr. "Glas" means voice. This name does not contain this interactive part of idea in its core, but it does not have to at its start.
Message was edited by: gale1
Re: Please, comment this project.
gale1,
thought you might enjoy looking at this website. It is a far cry from the radical, democracy tool you envision, but an example of a huge database of (American) NGOs. It's called http://www.guidestar.org - and pulls together information on 850,000 non-profit organistations. They focus a lot on the financial in-and-out goings of these organisations - not your interest, I know. And it's a long way from the 20,000 organisations you say you have in Croatia...
If there are only 400 "active" organisations. Why not limit the project to include them? It seems to me you are trying to do too many things at once. Both help NGOs talk to each other - as well as with the outside world. What actual incentives will people have to participate in this form of public communication? If the idea is to gain strength in unity, what is the unifying factor? With so many different NGOs and subject areas, won't it be a little messy?
Hm, funding is hard. Good idea is to check similar organisations and see where they get their funding from. Ever wonder about openDemocracy? http://www.opendemocracy.net/about/about_od_funding.jsp
Solana
Re: Please, comment this project.
> thought you might enjoy looking at this website. It
> is a far cry from the radical, democracy tool you
> envision, but an example of a huge database of
> (American) NGOs. It's called http://www.guidestar.org
> - and pulls together information on 850,000
> non-profit organistations. They focus a lot on the
> financial in-and-out goings of these organisations -
> not your interest, I know. And it's a long way from
> the 20,000 organisations you say you have in
> Croatia...
Even though it is not much of my concern, this link contains some infos we desperatelly needed. Thank you very much.
> If there are only 400 "active" organisations. Why not
> limit the project to include them? It seems to me you
> are trying to do too many things at once.
The project has a good phase separations. Even though we separated them on even more subprojects. Some of those projects can be runned at the same time, for others it makes no sense. Off course, it is all about resources we have and their optimisation.
Both help
> NGOs talk to each other - as well as with the outside
> world. What actual incentives will people have to
> participate in this form of public communication?
I am not sure I understand your question. Can you please explain it to me on some other way?
If
> the idea is to gain strength in unity, what is the
> unifying factor?
It is not about unity. Though, the strenght of unity will come out when people find that factor. I can speculate about it again, but it makes no great sense. Anyway, the idea is about open communication, where every citizen can be a part of public opinion. Till now, mass media created it in their own desired way.
With so many different NGOs and
> subject areas, won't it be a little messy?
NGOs with no common interest will not communicate. Those with common interest will. Anyway, the true strenght of this site lies in individuals who are involved in NGOs. This channel will optimize their own work, and through that, this will optimise the work of NGOs. Open channel gives this oportunity of horisontal communication. Very important part of the idea.
> Hm, funding is hard. Good idea is to check similar
> organisations and see where they get their funding
> from. Ever wonder about openDemocracy?
> http://www.opendemocracy.net/about/about_od_funding.js
Thanks :).
Message was edited by: gale1
Re: Presenting project Forum.hr
Thanks for the comments.
Yes at the moment the 'brief' is fairly open and that may be a detriment to the site. It was just the product of thinking about a small conference on weblogs and politics at the Houses of Parliament.
Lazyweb, if you check out www.lazyweb.org it is a site for people to post up ideas for web tools, rss, etc and they can be browsed and if someone finds something they can do or want to do then they can.
It is based on weblog technology, which in itself can be a limitation to participation, but it does allow for very distributed conversations.
I agree that there is a problem with creating too many sites, when the existing sites are not visited enough. Though I do forsee problems with creating too big sites that also do not get visits and then you have put huge resouces into something that won't be used.
Still my site is really just an experiment, time will tell if anything can grow from that, i want to see if people will start discussions around what they want politics to be.
Anyway, let me know if I can be of any help in your project, and keep us informed.
mark.
mark simpkins
NodalResearch.
Re: Presenting project Forum.hr
> Lazyweb, if you check out www.lazyweb.org it is a
> site for people to post up ideas for web tools, rss,
> etc and they can be browsed and if someone finds
> something they can do or want to do then they can.
It is a deffinitelly good thing. Of course, the problem of low number of visitors probably remains unsolved.
> It is based on weblog technology, which in itself can
> be a limitation to participation, but it does allow
> for very distributed conversations.
Well, I have to get into the whole idea a little bit more, to give you a proper feedback about the all concept.
> I agree that there is a problem with creating too
> many sites, when the existing sites are not visited
> enough. Though I do forsee problems with creating too
> big sites that also do not get visits and then you
> have put huge resouces into something that won't be
> used.
I mentioned that this is not expensive project at its start. The problem of visitors we solved by linking all pages of NGOs on the forum. It concentrates people on one site. This is the solution of the problem of the decentralised net in this centralised world.
BTW, the reason why many of NGOs support this project without any hesitation is in the simple idea that public action (wide definitition of the politics) of any kind concerns all political entity. So, any sort of public action has much better effect if it is represented to the all nation. This project makes this possible. The idea makes the great impact on democratiosation of the politics, wich is very important part of the idea of e-democracy.
> Still my site is really just an experiment, time will
> tell if anything can grow from that, i want to see if
> people will start discussions around what they want
> politics to be.
Well, I will definitelly use the infos from your site. If our project continues in this manner, we will have enough visitors to direct them to some sort of your project (probably in Croatian language).
> Anyway, let me know if I can be of any help in your
> project, and keep us informed.
Thank you. I will contact you soon as I get some time.
Presenting project Forum.hr
Re: Project forum.hr Project forum.hr is a good place for our voices to be heard. As we’ve so often said before, the ultimate solutions for our problem must lie in finding new ways to live, and there’s little any government agency can do to help that. But government can stay out of the way, and do less harm. There are a couple of issues we’re facing right now that could use our support, and the internet could hardly make them easier: just a little click and we'll have helped keep the government from despoiling our home. Political awareness must be disseminated among us through this project. I'm wishing success for your project from cooking games society. Presenting project Forum.hr
Looks interesting - the Lazyweb structure is neat - it makes sense to use it to bring people together on matters of politics. It still seems slightly unclear to me what the exact topic is - I guess you've left it broad on purpose (we have a tendency to do that on openDemocracy too) ... A little direction might help... Way to go on quick and easy - it's good to have a base before building something larger on it. |
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